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Topic Title: Take the 1898 King Edward?s School in Birmingham enterance exam for 11-year-olds
Created On Sun Nov 28, 04 03:37 AM
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mikebell
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Sun Nov 28, 04 03:37 AM
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Some questions, of course, are too region specific (i.e. geared for UK residents) but most of it is general enough.


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Dumbing down: the proof

As a service to Spectator readers who still have any doubts about the decline in educational standards, we are printing these exam papers taken by 11-year-olds applying for places to King Edward?s School in Birmingham in 1898.

ENGLISH GRAMMAR

1. Write out in your best handwriting:?

?O Mary, go and call the cattle home,
And call the cattle home,
And call the cattle home,
Across the sands o? Dee.?
The western wind was wild and dank with foam,
And all alone went she.

The western tide crept up along the sand,
And o?er and o?er the sand,
And round and round the sand,
As far as eye could see.
The rolling mist came down and hid the land ?
And never home came she.

2. Parse fully ?And call the cattle home.?

3. Explain the meaning of o? Dee, dank with foam, western tide, round and round the sand, the rolling mist.

4. Write out separately the simple sentences in the last two lines of the above passage and analyse them.

5. Write out what you consider to be the meaning of the above passage.

GEOGRAPHY

1. On the outline map provided, mark the position of Carlisle, Canterbury, Plymouth, Hull, Gloucester, Swansea, Southampton, Worcester, Leeds, Leicester and Norwich; Morecambe Bay, The Wash, Solent, Menai Straits and Lyme Bay; St Bees Head, The Naze, Lizard Point; the rivers Trent and Severn; Whernside, the North Downs, and Plinlimmon; and state on a separate paper what the towns named above are noted for.

2. Where are silver, platinum, tin, wool, wheat, palm oil, furs and cacao got from?

3. Name the conditions upon which the climate of a country depends, and explain the reason of any one of them.

4. Name the British possessions in America with the chief town in each. Which is the most important?

5. Where are Omdurman, Wai-Hei-Wai, Crete, Santiago, and West Key, and what are they noted for?

LATIN

1. Write in columns the nominative singular, genitive plural, gender, and meaning of:? operibus, principe, imperatori, genere, apro, nivem, vires, frondi, muri.

2. Give the comparative of noxius, acer, male, diu; the superlative of piger, humilis, fortiter, multum; the English and genitive sing. of solus, uter, quisque.

3. Write these phrases in a column and put opposite to each its Latin: he will go; he may wish; he had; he had been; he will be heard; and give in a column the English of fore, amatum, regendus, monetor.

4. Give in columns the perfect Indic. and active supine of ago, pono, dono, cedo, jungo, claudo.

Mention one example each of verbs followed by the nominative, the accusative, the genitive, the dative, the ablative.

5. Translate into Latin:?
1. The general?s little son was loved by the soldiers.
2. Let no bodies be buried within this city.
3. Ask Tullius who found the lions.
4. He said that the city had been taken, and, the war being finished, the forces would return.
6. Translate into English:?


Exceptus est imperatoris adventus incredibili honore atque amore: tum primum enim veniebat ab illo Aegypti bello. Nihil relinquebatur quod ad ornatum locorum omnium qua iturus erat excogitari posset.

ENGLISH HISTORY

1. What kings of England began to reign in the years 871, 1135, 1216, 1377, 1422, 1509, 1625, 1685, 1727, 1830?

2. Give some account of Egbert, William II, Richard III, Robert Blake, Lord Nelson.

3. State what you know of ? Henry II?s quarrel with Becket, the taking of Calais by Edward III, the attempt to make Lady Jane Grey queen, the trial of the Seven bishops, the Gordon riots.

4. What important results followed ? the raising of the siege of Orleans, the Gunpowder plot, the Scottish rebellion of 1639, the surrender at Yorktown, the battles of Bannockburn, Bosworth, Ethandune, La Hogue, Plassey, and Vittoria?

5. How are the following persons connected with English History,? Harold Hardrada, Saladin, James IV of Scotland, Philip II of Spain, Frederick the Elector Palatine?

ARITHMETIC

1. Multiply 642035 by 24506.

2. Add together £132 4s. 1d., £243 7s. 2d., £303 16s 2d., and £1.030 5s. 3d.; and divide the sum by 17. (Two answers to be given.)

3. Write out Length Measure, and reduce 217204 inches to miles, &c.

4. Find the G.C.M. of 13621 and 159848.

5. Find, by Practice, the cost of 537 things at £5 3s. 71/2d. each.

6. Subtract 37/16 from 51/4; multiply 63/4 by 5/36; divide 43/8 by 11/6; and find the value of 21/4 of 12/3 of 13/5.

7. Five horses and 28 sheep cost £126 14s., and 16 sheep cost £22 8s.; find the total cost of 2 horses and 10 sheep.

8. Subtract 3.25741 from 3.3; multiply 28.436 by 8.245; and divide .86655 by 26.5.

9. Simplify 183/4 ? 22/3 ÷ 11/5 ? 31/2 x 4/7.

10. Find the square root of 5.185,440,100.

11. Find the cost of papering the walls of a room 16ft long, 13ft 6in. wide, and 9ft high, with paper 11/2ft wide at 2s. 3d. a piece of 12yds in length.

12. A and B rent a number of fields between them for a year, the rent and other expenses amounting to £108 17s. 6d. A puts in 2 horses, 5 oxen and 10 sheep; and B puts in 4 horses, 1 ox, and 27 sheep. If a horse eats as much as 3 sheep and an ox as much as 2 sheep, how much should A and B each pay?

These papers were kindly sent in by Humphrey Stanbury, whose father took the exam, and passed.
 
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Kadence
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Sun Nov 28, 04 07:01 AM
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Some questions seem quite intimidating...but who knows what the score distributions were for this exam Perhaps 20% was a "passing" grade.

Or maybe admissions were highly correlated with parent donations.
 
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balaji
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Sun Nov 28, 04 03:24 PM
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seems pretty intimidating, mike!

one can always set a very intimidating question paper (for example the IIT entrance test or Comon Admission Test (CAT) for IIMs in India). As Kadence points out the question is the score distribution.

i am not sure if educational standards can be inferred from the difficulty of entrance tests to the institutions under question. GMAT is easy. does that mean educational standard at Harvard B- School is not high?

it would be better if we get some "performance" data of alumni of the institutions. something like where the students are of King Edward's School and what they are doing. again we will have a problem of what is good "performance" and what is not.

even if we had some data like that, one wouldn't be able to say, with confidence, that there is a causal relationship between stay at King Edward's and subsequent performance.



Edited: Sun Nov 28, 04 at 03:32 PM by balaji
 
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DominicConnor
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even if we had some data like that, one wouldn't be able to say, with confidence, that there is a causal relationship between stay at King Edward's and subsequent performance.
These people were being trained to be valuable members of the British Empire. The fuckwit morons who destroyed the greatest empire ever seen passed exams like this.
The reason that half the words for modern things in the world being English was the creation of a multi polar global culture that invented half the things in it.
What went wrong ?
The quality of Brits compared to the rest of the world dropped. Smart kids in Britain were vectored towards "classics" where in other nations they learned challenging useful things.

What isn't made clear here is what the syllabus was.
Give me almost any 10 year old on the planet, and I can make him past this test.
The variable is what else he learns.
Victorian "education" was largely learning things by saying them over and over again. Then saying them again.
Any attempt by a child to show initiative or to attempt critical analysis would be punished by physical abuse that is not only banned from modern schools, but from modern armies.
One certainly would not be allowed to treat a rapist the way the Christians used to abuse a kid who picked up a pen with his left hand.

The impression given to the target audience of Daily Mail readers is that kids learned more. Usually they didn't.
I'd be dead impressed by an 11 year old who could demonstrate an understanding of the evolution of the political power structure from 898 AD to 1898 AD, using as perspective the authority of the English crown.
That's not what they learned.
They learned the dates that English kings came to the throne and died. That's it.

In 1898 Britain was easily the foremost scientific nation in the world. Individual Brits did more to advance humanity than many whole countries.
There is not one question here on science or technology.
The British Empire was huge and powerful, holding well over half of humanity.
But not one of the questions covers anything of other cultures.
The nearest thing to things outside Britain was the teaching of a dead culture's language, not even the interesting bits of that.

Note the "maths" is arithmetic, sometnhing you teach by repitition not understanding. No geometry or algebra.




-------------------------
Discussion on the new regulations on bonuses here.

Edited: Sun Nov 28, 04 at 05:47 PM by DominicConnor
 
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LondonPete
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I wonder if this King Edwards was a Grammar school turned Public school in the 60s? If it was a Grammar than the applicant to place ratio would have been enormously high. Having said, the material appears more geared more to a private education background. Still, this is a harder entrance paper than the 11+ I took for my Grammar school - when I was that age I would have known very little of the required knowledge for which that paper asks. The 11+ I took tested ability rather than knowledge through verbal and non-verbal reasoning.

Edited: Sun Nov 28, 04 at 08:59 PM by LondonPete
 
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linuxuser99
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Sun Nov 28, 04 06:32 PM
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>> King Edward?s School in Birmingham in 1898

This school is still around. I took their entrance test in 1974 (it had become part of a city wide grading done at age 11 to determine what your future education and hence life prospects were).

On the basis of the outcome I was marked as "suitable only for special education" and sent to the non exam stream of a comprehensive - <G>. I'll bet I'm the only person on this board with a school leaving qualification in "woodwork".
 
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balaji
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Sun Nov 28, 04 06:42 PM
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Any attempt by a child to show initiative or to attempt critical analysis would be punished by physical abuse that is not only banned from modern schools, but from modern armies.

and ridicule, ofcourse.
 
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linuxuser99
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Sun Nov 28, 04 06:56 PM
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>> Smart kids in Britain were vectored towards "classics" where in other nations they learned challenging useful things.

One of the most interesting pieces of culture shock for a European coming to the UK is how over here an "Engineer" is the guy who comes out to fix your TV set.

In both France and Germany Engineer's have probably the best respected educational qualification on offer. People actively want their kids to become Engineers and they get some of the best jobs. In the UK if you want to run an engineering dept in a large company you're much better off doing a BA in English and then qualifying as an accountant - then get a managerial job running a team of engineers.

In England especially (but to some extent Scotland also) we have a "cult of the amatuer" which deprecates the expert in favour of the gentleman - it's a real shame.

Edited: Sun Nov 28, 04 at 06:56 PM by linuxuser99
 
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ppauper
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Edited: Fri Jan 28, 05 at 08:21 PM by ppauper
 
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ppauper
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Edited: Fri Jan 28, 05 at 08:21 PM by ppauper
 
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DominicConnor
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whenever I think of fuckwit morons, I'll think of you
I am, as always glad to be of service.

May I also offer you "malicious incompetence" ?
It fits the behaviour of many people far better than "evil".


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Discussion on the new regulations on bonuses here.
 
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Holmes
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Tue Nov 30, 04 07:22 PM
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whats the marking scheme?
how long did they have?

I'm pretty certain I could have done the 'maths bit' when I was 11,
and a whole lot more

the other stuff, errmm

I had to do the 11+ in my day which was pretty mathsy, but i think
that was a fair way to descriminate between kids.

i sat the new experimental 11+ after i did my actual one and i can distinctly remember being asked what a continent was and what the oceans where etc and not having a fucking clue.

Looking back i actually think these learning tests disadvantage poorer kids: ie guys who've never left their town never mind continent

u can teach some poor kid algebra and ask him a whole load of questions.
you can teach him a latin word and ask him a few.
so the more time(money/education) invested the more 'latin' questions he'll be able to answer...

ifyaknowwhatimean

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"Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself; but talent instantly recognizes genius."
 
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pusher
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The boring math part would have easily turned off most of the promising 11yr old math geniuses.

Edited: Thu Dec 02, 04 at 05:12 PM by pusher
 
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